Let me start by saying, I know being an umpire is a under appreciated job. Your getting yelled at by coaches, parents, and even kids at times. Its tough especially when your one guy trying to do the best you can all over the field. So I can respect that, I try to respect that, but for some reason I keep getting umpires that have no idea what the rules are.

I mean aren’t they told what the rules are before they get onto the field? Its the same scenario game after game. They start laying down ground rules and then I’m telling them nope we can do that, nope we can do that too. Just to get really, yeah? You sure? And it makes for a bad start to a game, not only because I have no faith in the umpiring but because I feel like I’m showing them up, and all I’m really trying to do is play the game right.

So here’s my question or questions. What is the official rule on drop third strike, or uncaught third strike? What I’m really looking for is; When is the batter actually out?

Major league baseball states rule: 6.09 (b) The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base unoccupied (2) first base is occupied with two out. 6.09(b) comment: A batter who does not realize his situation on third strike not caught and who is not in the process of running to first base shall be declared out once he leaves the dirt circle surrounding home plate.

And the Little League rule book its vague. Its states the same as major league baseball but the Note: reads a batter forfeits his/her opportunity to advance to first base when he/she enters the dug out or other dead ball areas.

Now since most fields do not have a home plate circle that would leave dead ball areas I presume. And if it’s the dug out wouldn’t then the home team have the advantage for this very thing? I mean if you’re the home team and you get to your dugout your half way down the line. Then all of a sudden your coach says quietly run to first, I mean that’s sound ridiculous.

So please what is the official ruling on this? Thanks.

Not sure of the official ruling on that, but I would think your intention that the home team has an advantage is off base. There are games in which you are the home team so it balances out. If that weren't the case your arguement would hold true for the simple fact of the home team having last licks. Its part of the home field advantage, not favoritism or special rules. It works for both teams thru out the season. Just my opinion

I would think so too if I felt that the whole "well we will be home team some day" really added up ya know. I mean if that play happened every game so all teams could take advantage of that scenario then yeah the whole we will be home team one day makes sense.

See if the rule was written just like MLB then the player would have been out once he left the home plate circle, or maybe even have some designated area. Saying dead ball area is kind of dumb I think because thats to vague and dead ball meaning he leaves the field of play, again kind of dumb. Because with the way the rule is being up held technically if a kid stood just out side his dug out all night he could run to first at any time.

Also I thought baseball was set and the rules were set to make sure there was no advantages or to make anything lopsided. Thats why there's no clock and its all about getting outs. The only real advantage a home team in baseball is just begin at home and getting last licks.

So I don't think its favoritism or special rules.I just think that supposedly once your reach junior league baseball you playing major league baseball rules, with the exception of the bat weight drop.So why would this rule be any different?

Well standing in front of his dugout all night wont work, once play begins he is Out regardless.

I can't quote major league rule books but the bottom line is if there are two outs and first base is occupied the batter is out if it was a called stike or a swinging third strike, no throw required no coach yelling or whispering. If first base is open the catcher must either tag the batter or throw down to first base to record the out if the called third strike or swinging third strike is dropped by the catcher.

Coach BHHHH - The MLB rule you copied is clear and in Little League you can't advance on a dropped third strike. What is the actual question?

NYOdad...or if first base is occupied with two outs on a dropped third stike, the batter may advance to first base and the catcher must either tag the runner or throw down to first base. If the bases are loaded and the catcher drops the third strike, he simply picks up the ball and steps on home plate creating a force out on the runner advancing to home.

Also if you are a team that's playing with the dropped third strike rule (It appears little league does not do this until they get older), make sure your catchers/players know the rule. I've seen where an opposing teams player make it to third base while he was walking back to the third base dugout and realized that the catcher dropped the ball even though the umpire gave the strike call. The cather threw the ball back to the mound and it rolled out towards second base while the team was running off the field. They watched the kid run around the bases and laugh until a smart ball player realized what was going on. He ran and picked up the ball and ran home with it holding the runner at third. The inning continued. Bottom line. Know the rules.

The question I was trying to understand was when does the batter give himself up on the drop third strike? I have a 12U team playing with junior baseball rules.

The MLB rule would stand that the minute the batter walks out of the home plate circle(he gives himself up), but we are being told the dug out(must walk into the dug out). The dug out is half way to first base if your the home team. So(and this has happened)you get a kid who heads back to his dug out and no one has realized what just happen and then out of no where the kids takes off for first base because someone screams that was a drop third strike.

If the dug out where set back maybe I could understand that but again MLB says once you leave the home plate circle.I was under the understanding that Junior baseball rules where the same as high school with the exception of bat weight drop.

Maybe I'm just missing something...

Got it now. The answer to your question will be based on what set of rules you are playing. You are likely playing Federation Rules (think high school) rather than MLB or NCAA - and certainly not Little League. While the "basic" baseball rules are the same there are many differences, ie re-entry, force play slide rule and # of trips to the mound. I found this from a reliable source:

NFHS (Federation) rule 8-4-1

In NFHS rules with less than two outs, the batter is not yet out until he reaches his bench or other dead ball area...

with 2 outs, the Batter may try for first until the infielders have left the diamond or until he gives up by reaching the bench or other dead ball area...

the batter is out when the umpire calls him out

hello

if the catcher drops the third strike and the umpire doesnt call the batter out he should tag said batter or throw to first why would the home team have an advantage?

if the kid takes his bat and walks toward his dugout the umpire will almost always call him out anyway i suggest you teach your catchers to tag the batter anyway

hey!? youre not one of those hidden-ball trick guys...are you?

HAHA no hidden ball tricks, besides thats not legal ;O)

I do teach the kids to tag the batter if they drop the ball, but there kids ya know so its one of those things.

The hidden ball trick is not legal?

I had two teams try it and both times the ump said not legal.

Thanks for the response. I tried to find the rule on the NFHS web site and couldn't find a definitive answer.I just assumed high school was the same as MLB since that is what I was told. Thanks for taking the time out..

The hidden ball trick should be legal as long as the pitcher does not put his foot on the rubber without the ball.
If the pitcher throws over to first and the runner steps off the base, he can tag the runner out. It doesn't matter if the runner doesn't know where the ball is.

its illegal for the pitcher to decieve the runner and he cant stand at the rubber without the ball

anyway its super-bush id be embaressed to try it

Bush yes, legal yes!

The pitcher can not be on the monund (rubber or dirt) .

Fall for this play and it shows that you are not paying attention at all.

Most baseball movies that show this play have the picher on the mound.

Major League rules cannot be on rubber or straddling rubber.

High school college cannot be on mound dirt.

It happened yesterday... the batter swings & misses at a bounced pitch for strike 3. Turns around & takes 3 or 4 steps toward 3B dugout. Coach yells "tag him". Batter turns to run, dances into the area in front of the plate evading the catcher to run toward 1B. Catcher throws him out at 1B, but the batter at first gave himself up, then appeared to be more than the approx. 3' from the baseline to avoid a tag. Two no calls by ump before the toss out at 1B???

That is proper call. Runner does not give himself up until he is in dugout.

Ask four umpires and you will not get the same answer twice.

The runner is out when he hits the dugout / Also depends on how many outs and if first is occupied or not. I have found this, trian your guys to run to first on a dropped third strike no matter what, and let the umpire make the call after the kids is at the base and the other team is throwing the ball around the feild. No coach will ever get mad at a kid for the huslte to bust it up the line so its not a bad thing for a kid to do no matter what.

2 outs with a runner on 1st base, the Batter is allowed to try to make it to 1st base on a dropped 3rd strike. It's with no outs or 1 out, man on 1st base, you are NOT able to run on a dropped 3rd strike.