Popup in foul territory on the first base side. The pitcher is underneath the ball ready to catch it. The runner runs into him, 2 seconds later the ball lands in the pitcher's glove but he drops it. Is it obstruction? The runner was well outside of the normal running zone where he would be required to run if there were a bunt or a dribbler in front of the plate. i.e., he is well into foul territory when he bumped into the pitcher.

Obstruction?

your kidding me right. the fielder has the right of way. IF THE Pitcher is looking up how can he aviod the runner.

Obstruction is called on a fielder not in the act of fielding the ball when he impedes the progress of a baserunner, it is called interference when a runner interferes with a fielder in the act of fielding the ball, ball must be caught and controlled while glove is on hand ! Batter would be called out for interference, hope that explains it.

My two cents, Under Little League and High School rules only, all runners are required to attempt to avoid collisions. If a runner fails to do so, he is guilty of interference.

OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner. The pitcher was in the act of fielding the ball so it is not obstruction.

I agree

How about this play. I've seen it twice and called different ways. Batter hits ground ball to deep short. Runner clearly beats the throw but misses first base. No call from umpire, although the first baseman has ball in glove and foot on base. Runner walks back to base and umpire calls him safe.

Question is did the runner have possesion of first base even though he missed the bag? And does the fielder now have to TAG the runner to record the out?

Real Question is did the umpire think runner did indeed have contact with bag, that could be why he did not make the call and therefore beleived runner is safe. My quess would be umpire beleived runner did have contact with base prior to 1st baseman catching throw. 1st baseman would only need to tag runner if said runner made an attempt to go to 2nd base.

Yes. I agree, it can not be called two diff ways, it would be called according to if the ump saw contact or not.

This particular play is an appeal play. if the runner beat the throw, he has aquired the base. The fielder was then have to ask for an appeal.

If that is true, than ,If I understand you correctly, that the ump saw the runner miss the bag, then called him safe and then will change his call if the defense noticed the runner missed the bag ? And if that is the case would the result be any different if this play was at the plate.

[quote=Anonymous]This particular play is an appeal play. if the runner beat the throw, he has aquired the base. The fielder was then have to ask for an appeal. [/quote

There can be no Appeal. The umpire used his judgement and called the runner safe.

Rule 9.02 (a) Any umpire's decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions.

By Rule, a team is allowed to appeal a play if they think a runner missed a base. It has nothing to do with judgement.

The only judgement would be is if the umpire thought the runner touched the base or not. Which in that case, the umpire would call the runner safe on the appeal.

I do think what the question was if a runner beats the throw to first base, but missed the bag, can the fielder just run and tag him. the fielder would have to ask for an appeal and then tag the runner or the base.

If that is true, than ,If I understand you correctly, that the ump saw the runner miss the bag, then called him safe and then will change his call if the defense noticed the runner missed the bag ? ANSWER - Yes, if the runner missed the bag, the umpire will call the runner out on a proper appeal from the defensive team.

And if that is the case would the result be any different if this play was at the plate. Answer: The only difference I'd say here is that the umpire would not show a "safe signal" if he/she determines the runner missed home plate. However, a proper appeal must be made to retire the runner.

Appeal Plays

Here is another one to talk about.

A runner is on first with two out when the batter slugs a double, putting runners at second and third. Before the next pitch, the pitcher makes a quick pick-off throw to second, at which point the first baseman asks for the ball and appeals that the batter who doubled had missed first. The umpire knows the bag was missed. How should he rule? Answer

Rule 9.02 (b) If there is reasonable doubt that any umpire's decision may be in conflict with the rules, the manager may appeal the decision and ask that a correct ruling be made. Such appeal shall be made only to the umpire who made the protested decision.

The umpires decision in this case is clearly not in conflict with the rules. The player was called save (rightly or wrongly) What you can do is argue and argue and argue and argue but not Appeal. The umps decision of save (he made the call) stands.

Your totally overlooking the appeal rule, which was the question that was asked. Call one of your umpire friends and he/she would tell you want I'm telling you.

Your version is something totally different that an appeal play.

[quote=Anonymous]Appeal Plays

Here is another one to talk about.

A runner is on first with two out when the batter slugs a double, putting runners at second and third. Before the next pitch, the pitcher makes a quick pick-off throw to second, at which point the first baseman asks for the ball and appeals that the batter who doubled had missed first. The umpire knows the bag was missed. How should he rule? Answer

The rules specify that an appeal must be made before the next pitch or any play or attempted play. It is to late to appeal because the pick-off throw was a play.

I disagree. 99% of the calls made in baseball are based on the umpires judgement. In this case you can argue the call but you cannot appeal the call because there is no conflict with the rules.

If an umpire doesn't call an infield fly in a situation where you believe it should be called, you may tell him that it should have been called, but it's still a judgment call and can't be appealed. On the other hand, if the umpire calls infield fly and then the ball drops in foul territory and the umpire still states that the batter is out then this is the incorrect call in conflict with the rules and you can Appeal.

actually you can appeal what you do is PROTEST

actually you can not appeal what you do is PROTEST

You cannot APPEAL or PROTEST this call. RULE 4.19 No PROTEST shall ever be permitted on judgements decisions by the umpire. You again must prove a violation of the rules.

Rule 4.19 PROTESTING GAMES.
Each league shall adopt rules governing procedure for protesting a game, when a manager claims that an umpire’s decision is in violation of these rules. No protest shall ever be permitted on judgment decisions by the umpire. In all protested games, the decision of the League President shall be final.
Even if it is held that the protested decision violated the rules, no replay of the game will be ordered unless in the opinion of the League President the violation adversely affected the protesting team’s chances of winning the game.
Rule 4.19 Comment: Whenever a manager protests a game because of alleged misapplication of the rules the protest will not be recognized unless the umpires are notified at the time the play under protest occurs and before the next pitch, play or attempted play. A protest arising on a game-ending play may be filed until 12 noon the following day with the league office.

"that the ump saw the runner miss the bag, then called him safe"
why would the ump do that ?

Original post was

How about this play. I've seen it twice and called different ways. Batter hits ground ball to deep short. Runner clearly beats the throw but misses first base. No call from umpire, although the first baseman has ball in glove and foot on base. Runner walks back to base and umpire calls him safe.

Question is did the runner have possesion of first base even though he missed the bag? And does the fielder now have to TAG the runner to record the out?

The post does not say the umpire clearly saw the runner missed the base. Obviously the umpire did not see the runner missed the base (JUDGEMENT).

This seems to be getting very confusing. I know what the orig
post said, but my point was that if the ump calls him safe,then the ump thought he touched the base (In error, but still his call). If the ump saw him miss the bag, he will call him out because he missed the bag. There is no appeal here. Now I have seen some Little League games where the loudest screamer can make the ump change his mind, when the ump was not sure of what he saw. Human error cannot be factored in to this equation.
The orig post said he saw it called two ways, one was just wrong.

Actally both calls could have been wrong or both calls could have been right or the call that you thought was wrong could have been right or the call that was right could have been wrong. The point is the umpire made judgement calls in each instance and unless a violation of the rules can be articulated by the coaches who believe the call was wrong it is history, the call stands.

Illegal Bat situation...

Bases loaded, next batter steps in, and he walks to force in a run. Coach directs umpire's attention to (NJBL 12-90') an Easton minus 10, 2 3/4 barrel bat that was just used in the at bat. Obviously it's in violation of NJBL rules that state a 2 3/4 barrel bat must be minus 8.5 or less.

The batter is "safe" and the bat is removed from the game? Or, the batter is out because illegal equipment was used in the at bat?

Pro Rule: Rule 6.06(d) Comment: A batter shall be deemed to have used or attempted to use an illegal bat if
he brings such a bat into the batter’s box.

Federation Rule: ILLEGAL BAT

1. A batter is out if he hits fair or foul with an illegal bat. If the bat is appealed before the next pitch, the defense may take the result of the play or the penalty (batter is out, runners return).

2. A batter is out if he enters the batter's box with an illegal bat.

Yes. This is a live ball appeal and the first baseman must apply a tag to the batter/runner before he returns to the bag.

does a tie go to runner?? or is this a myth??

its a myth....you're either out or safe.

There are many myths in baseball, and many websites that talk about them. every website that talks about myths list "there is no ties go to the runner". It is #16 on this list. This is one of my favorite baseball myth website list.

Top 40 Baseball Rule Myths


1. HANDS MYTH.
The hands are considered part of the bat.
The hands are part of a person's body. If a pitch hits the batter's hands the ball is dead; if he swung at the pitch, a strike is called (NOT a foul). If he was avoiding the pitch, he is awarded first base.


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2. RIGHT TURN MYTH.
The batter-runner must turn to his right after over-running first base. The batter-runner may turn left or right, provided that if he turns left he does not make an attempt to advance. An attempt is a judgment made by the umpire. The requirement is that the runner must immediately return to first after overrunning or oversliding it.


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3. BREAKING WRISTS MYTH.
If the batter breaks his wrists when swinging, it's a strike. A strike is a judgment by the umpire as to whether the batter attempted to strike the ball. Breaking the wrists, or the barrel of the bat crossing the plate are simply guides to making the judgment of an attempt, these are not rules.


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4. HIT PLATE MYTH.
If a batted ball hits the plate first it's a foul ball. The plate is in fair territory. There is nothing special about it. If a batted ball hits it, it is treated like any other batted ball.


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5. BATTER BOX INTERFERENCE MYTH.
The batter cannot be out for interference if he is in the batter's box. The batter's box is not a safety zone. A batter could be called out for interference if the umpire judges that interference could or should have been avoided.
The batter is protected while in the box for a short period of time. After he has had time to react to the play he could be called for interference if he does not move out of the box and interferes with a play. Many people believe the batter's box is a safety zone for the batter. It is not. The batter MAY be called out for interference although he is within the box. The key words, impede, hinder, confuse or obstruct apply to this situation. An umpire must use good judgment. The batter cannot be expected to disappear. If he has a chance to avoid interference after he has had time to react to the situation and does not, he is guilty. If he just swung at a pitch, or had to duck a pitch and is off-balance, he can't reasonably be expected to then immediately avoid a play at the plate. However, after some time passes, if a play develops at the plate, the batter must get out of the box and avoid interference. The batter should always be called out when he makes contact and is outside the box.


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6. FOUL-TIP MYTH.
The ball is dead on a foul-tip. There is nothing foul about a foul-tip. If the ball nicks the bat and goes sharp and direct to the catcher's hand or glove and is caught, this is a foul-tip by definition. A foul-tip is a strike and the ball is alive. It is the same as a swing-and-miss. If the ball is not caught, it is a foul ball. If the nicked pitch first hits the catcher somewhere other than the hand or glove, it is not a foul-tip, it is a foul ball.


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7. SWITCH BOX MYTH.
The batter may not switch batter's boxes after two strikes. The batter can switch boxes at any time, provided he does not do it after the pitcher is ready to pitch.


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8. OUT OF ORDER MYTH.
The batter who batted out of order is the person declared out. The PROPER batter is the one called out. Any hit or advance made by the batter or runners due to the hit, walk, error or other reason is nullified. The next batter is the one who follows the proper batter who was called out.


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9. OVER-RUN FIRST BASE MYTH.
The batter may not overrun first base when he gets a base-on-balls. Rule 7.08 simply states that a batter-runner must immediately return after overrunning first base. It doesn't state any exceptions as to how the player became a runner. It could be a hit, walk, error or dropped third strike. In Little League the runner may overrun. In FED rules he may not and in Professional baseball, he may not. In other programs that use the OBR he may if that is how the program rules it. To overrun means that the runners momentum carried him straight beyond the base after touching it. It does not mean to turn and attempt to advance. Nor does it mean that he stepped over it or stopped on it and then got off of it.


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10. DROPPED THIRD STRIKE MYTH.
The batter is out if he starts for the dugout before going to first. The batter may attempt first base anytime prior to entering the dugout or a dead ball area.
The batter becomes a runner when the third strike is not caught. Therefore, if there are 2 outs and there is a runner at first, first and second, or bases loaded, the batter creates a force by becoming a runner. These runners are all forced to advance and an out may be obtained by making a play on any one of them. If the bases are loaded the catcher may step on home or throw to third, second or first.


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11. BUNTING STRIKE MYTH.
If the batter does not pull the bat out of the zone while bunting, it's a strike. A STRIKE is an attempt to hit the ball. Simply holding the bat over the plate is not an attempt. This is umpire judgment.
A BUNT is a batted ball not swung at, but INTENTIONALLY met with the bat.
The key words are "intentionally met"
If no attempt is made to make contact with a ball outside the strike zone, it should be called a ball. An effort must be made to intentionally meet the ball with the bat.


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12. SECOND BAT HIT MYTH.
The batter is out if a bunted ball hits the ground and bounces back up and hits the bat while the batter is holding the bat. The rule says the BAT cannot hit the ball a second time. When the BALL hits the bat, it is not an out. Also, when the batter is still in the box when this happens, it's treated as simply a foul ball. If the batter is out of the box and the bat is over fair territory when the second hit occurs, the batter would be out.


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13. FOOT TOUCHES PLATE MYTH.
The batter is out if his foot touches the plate. To be out, the batter's foot must be ENTIRELY outside the box when he contacts the pitch and the ball goes fair or foul. He is not out if he does not contact the pitch. There is no statement about touching the plate. The toe could be on the plate and the heel could be touching the line of the box, which means the foot is not entirely outside the box.


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14. RUNNING LANE MYTH.
The batter-runner is always out if he runs outside the running lane after a bunted ball. The runner must be out of the lane AND cause interference. He is not out simply for being outside the lane. He could be called for interference even while in the lane. This is a judgment call.
The runner may step out of the lane a step or two before the base if he moves from within the lane to out of it. If he is out of the lane the whole distance to the base and is hit with a throw, he should be out.


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15. HIGH FIVE MYTH.
A runner is out if he slaps hands with other players, after a homerun is hit over the fence. The ball is dead on a homerun over the fence. You can't be put out while the ball is dead except when you pass another runner.


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16. THE TIE MYTH.
Tie goes to the runner. There is no such thing in the world of umpiring. The runner is either out or safe. The umpire must judge out or safe. It is impossible to judge a tie.


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17. OUT-OF-PLAY BALL MYTH.
The runner gets the base he's going to, plus one on a ball thrown out-of-play. When a fielder other than the pitcher throws the ball into dead ball area, the award is 2 bases. The award is from where the runners were at the time of the pitch if it is the first play by an infielder before all runners have advanced or from where each runner was physically positioned at the time the ball left the throwers hand on all other plays.


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18. COACH TOUCH MYTH.
Anytime a coach touches a runner, the runner is out. Rule 7.09 says the runner is out if the coach PHYSICALLY ASSISTS the runner. Hand slaps, back pats or simple touches are not physical assists.


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19. REVERSE BASERUNNING MYTH.
Runners may never run the bases in reverse order. In order to correct a base running mistake, the runner MUST retrace his steps and retouch the bases in reverse order. The only time a runner is out for running in reverse, is when he is making a travesty of the game or tries to confuse the defense.


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20. MUST SLIDE MYTH.
The runner must always slide when the play is close. There is no "must slide" rule. When the fielder has the ball in his possession, the runner has two choices; slide OR attempt to get around the fielder. He may NOT deliberately or maliciously contact the fielder, but he is NOT required to slide. If the fielder does not have possession but, is in the act of fielding, and contact is made, it is a no-call unless the contact was intentional and malicious.


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21. HIT BY BALL ON BASE MYTH.
The runner is always safe when hit by a batted ball while touching a base. The bases are in fair territory. A runner is out when hit by a fair batted ball while touching a base, except when hit by an infield-fly or after the ball has passed a fielder and no other fielder had a play on the ball. If the runner is touching first or third, he is not out unless the ball touches him over fair territory. If one foot is on the base and the other is in foul ground and he is hit on the foul ground foot, he is not out. It is a foul ball. (If the ball has not passed beyond first or third.)


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22. NO STEAL ON FOUL-TIP MYTH.
A runner may not steal on a foul-tip. There is nothing foul about a foul-tip. If the ball nicks the bat and goes to the catcher's glove and is caught, this is a foul-tip by definition. A foul-tip is a strike and the ball is alive. It is the same as a swing-and-miss. If the ball is not caught, it is a foul ball.


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23. FLY BALL FORCE OUT MYTH.
It is a force out when a runner is called out for not tagging up on a fly ball. A force play is when a runner is forced to advance because the batter became a runner. When the batter is out on a caught fly, all forces are removed. An out on an a failure to tag-up, is NOT a force out. Any runs that cross the plate before this out will count.


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24. MISSED BASE APPEAL MYTH.
An appeal on a runner who missed a base cannot be a force out. A runner must touch all the bases. If the runner misses a base to which he was forced because the batter became a runner and is put out before touching that base, the out is still a force play. If this is the third out, no runs may score. The base can be touched or the runner can be touched, either way it's a force out.


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25. OUT OF THE BASELINE MYTH.
A runner’s out if he’s out of the baseline to avoid a fielder fielding a batted ball. The runner MUST avoid a fielder attempting to field a BATTED ball. A runner is out for running out of the baseline, only when attempting to avoid a tag.


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26. NO ADVANCE ON INFIELD FLY MYTH.
Runners may not advance when an infield fly is called. An Infield-fly is no different than any other fly ball in regard to the runners. The only difference is that they are never forced to advance because the batter is out whether the ball is caught or not.


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27. NO RUN ON THIRD OUT MYTH.
No run can score when a runner is called out for the third out for not tagging up. Yes it can. This is not a force play. A force play is when a runner is forced to advance because the batter became a runner. When the batter is out on a caught fly, all forces are removed. An out on an a failure to tag-up, is NOT a force out. Any runs that cross the plate before this out will count.


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28. NO HIT ON BOUNCED PITCH MYTH.
A pitch that bounces to the plate cannot be hit. A pitch is a ball delivered to the batter by the pitcher. It doesn't matter how it gets to the batter. The batter may hit any pitch that is thrown. A pitch that bounces before reaching the plate may never be a called strike or a legally caught third strike. (If the ball does not cross the foul line, it is not a pitch.)


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29. NO FIRST BASE ON BOUNCED PITCH MYTH.
The batter does not get first base if hit by a pitch after it bounces. A pitch is a ball delivered to the batter by the pitcher. It doesn't matter how it gets to the batter. If the batter is hit by a pitch while attempting to avoid it, he is awarded first base.


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30. TWO SECOND CATCH MYTH.
If a fielder holds a fly ball for two seconds it's a catch. A catch is legal when the umpire judges that the fielder has COMPLETE control of the ball. The release of the ball must be voluntary and intentional.


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31. FOOT TAG MYTH.
You must tag the base with your foot on a force out or appeal. You can tag a base with ANY part of the body.


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32. DEAD BALL ON BALK MYTH.
The ball is always immediately dead on a balk. In Federation rules it is, not in any others. If a throw or pitch is made after the balk call, the ball is delayed dead. At the end of the play the balk may be enforced or not depending on what happened. On a throw; if ALL runners advance on the play, the balk is ignored. If not, the balk award is enforced from the time of pitch. On a pitch; if ALL runners INCLUDING the batter, advance on the play, the balk is ignored. Otherwise, it is no-pitch and the balk award is made from the time of the pitch.


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33. FAIR FEET, FAIR BALL MYTH.
If a player's feet are in fair territory when the ball is touched, it is a fair ball. The position of the player's feet or any other part of the body is irrelevant. A ball is judged fair or foul based on the relationship between the ball and the ground at the time the ball is touched by the fielder.


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34. APPEAL MYTH.
The ball must always be returned to the pitcher before an appeal can be made. An appeal may be made anytime the ball is alive. The only time the ball must go to the pitcher, is when time is out. The ball cannot be made live until the pitcher has the ball while on the rubber and the umpire says "Play." If time is not out, the appeal can be made immediately.


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35. FALSE WINDUP MYTH.
With no runners on base, it is a ball if the pitcher starts his windup and then stops. A pitch is a ball delivered to the batter by the pitcher. If the ball is not delivered, it is not a pitch. Therefore it cannot be a ball. If this happens with runners on base it is a balk. The rule for LL is different. It is an illegal pitch and a ball with or without runners on base.


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36. MUST SET TO PICK MYTH.
The pitcher must come to a set position before a pick-off throw. The pitcher is required to come to a complete stop in the Set position before delivering the pitch, not before making a throw.


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37. MUST STEP OFF RUBBER TO PICK MYTH.
The pitcher must step off the rubber before a pick-off throw. If the pitcher steps off the rubber he is no longer the pitcher, he is a fielder. He can throw to a base from the rubber, provided he does not break any of the rules under rule 8.05.


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38. FIELDER OVER THE FENCE HOMERUN MYTH.
If a fielder catches a fly and then falls over a fence it is a homerun. As long as the fielder is not touching the ground in dead ball territory when he catches the ball, it is a legal catch if he holds onto the ball and meets the definition of a catch. If the catch is not the third out and the fielder falls down in dead ball territory after catching the ball, all runners are awarded one base. If the fielder remains on his feet in dead ball territory after the catch, the ball is alive and he may make a play.


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39. DEAD BALL WHEN UMPIRE IS HIT MYTH.
The ball is dead anytime an umpire is hit by the ball. If an umpire is hit by a batted ball before it passes a fielder, the ball is dead. On any other batted or thrown ball, the ball is alive when the umpire is hit with the ball. Umpire interference also occurs when the plate umpire interferes with the catcher's attempt to prevent a stolen base.


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40. HOME PLATE UMPIRE MYTH.
The home plate umpire can overrule the other umps at anytime.

so if the ball and the runner hit first base together, the runner is safe????????? and is there anything in the rules that says anything contrary to this??????????/

To #23589 - If a picture is worth a 1000 words then a Website link is worth 10,000 words.

You have too much time on your hands!

11u baymen looking for players 2-3 want to go to cooperstown at 12u new coaching staff

if the ball hits the base its a fair ball and unless it was hit and then hits a runner he is safe as well. The base does not protect runners only in an infield fly situation.

To th eperson who asked of there is a tie are you for real. Must be little league guy? you are either safe or you are out thats the call no givemees in baseball. Whats next do overers?

Please why would you even ask that question in a public place. if you have coached or played any level above LL you would know thats not true.

99.99% of the time no such thing as tie- but it can happen. of course there is no rule that if tie runner is safe. ever hear of a dead heat in horse racing or track and field.

there are no ties. the runner has to reach the base prior to the ball. if they both arrive at the same time, the runner hasn't reached the base prior to the ball, therefore he is out.